...and some related podcast conversations

This wide-ranging conversation between Ezra Klein and Anne Murphy Paul is full of ideas that exemplify the power and possibility of cognitive kindness and why it matters:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/20/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-annie-murphy-paul.html?smid=url-share

As does this conversation between Klein and Cal Newport: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/05/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-cal-newport.html?smid=url-share

Happy listening!